A discussion between UCDA members Christine Prado and Katharine McCann on what they treasure about UCDA and why they continue to support the organization. Christine is an art director at Clemson University and the UCDA President-Elect. Katharine is a graphic designer at the University of Lynchburg.
The two met at the UCDA Design Conference in Phoenix in 2011 and have gotten to know each other over the years. They both have cats named Blaze.
Christine Prado: We could start with how you got involved with UCDA.
Katharine McCann: I was rifling through my admin’s desk drawers looking for something after hours and I came across a folder that said “UCDA.” and thought “Oh, that seems cool. I need to go to that.” My first event was the UCDA Design Summit in San Diego in 2002. It was the first time I’d ever flown — across the country, in a fully fueled plane, and after 9/11.
CP: Did you go by yourself?
KM: I went by myself. I’m an introvert. I guess I just compensated and pushed through. I’d see the same people over and over again and I found this group to hang out with. I remember one of the first nights, they had this small-group thing, and everyone was griping about Publisher. And I thought “Oh, thank God, it’s not just me! These are my people! Let’s all gripe about Publisher together.” There were some designers from Harvard that didn’t know each other because they worked on different parts of campus and did different things. That was interesting to me because you think a place like Harvard would be a little more centralized. But as I’ve come to learn, places like Harvard are not centralized.
CP: That’s one thing I’ve always appreciated about the organization. I’ve been to other conferences besides UCDA, and I’m like “This is not speaking to my experience.” I can’t do these things you are telling me to do. I can’t fire my client.
KM: Right!
UCDA Design Conference in Portland (2019), left to right: Brian Yohn, Christine Prado, Richard Jividen, Katharine McCann, David Whaley, and Anne Fischer.
CP: When you go to UCDA, you’re like “Oh we’re all dealing with the same cast of characters.” You find you’re dealing with the same issues that everyone is, and you think, “Oh I thought I was the only one.”
KM: And even still it feels that way. When I talk to somebody, and they pull back the curtain on this amazing piece they’ve done and it’s like, “Oh, you went through hell to get there.”
CP: A lot of times, I’d be with my family and I’m make some comment on something I saw and they’d be like “why are you noticing these things?” When I would walk around with people I met at the conference, it was like “I have found my people! They don’t think I’m weird for noticing these things!” Not only were you dealing with the higher ed scenario, but you were dealing with people that saw the world through the same kind of lens that you did. And that turns out to be a very different lens.
KM: I remember I picked up some magazines at the publications exchange and got to chat with the designer who did it. I had never designed a magazine and so it was just nice to chat with someone about the process.
CP: I know you and I have had a lot of conversations about how we get to be at the table. That’s always been the battle as designers as how we are seen as a better resource. About 10 years ago, it was all “design thinking” and I was like “what does that even mean?” Recently, I saw this video about this called “Design Thinking Is Bullshit.” Basically, they took the idea of design thinking and turned it into putting Post Its on walls, particularly glass walls. But they didn’t embrace what design thinking was supposed to do, which is develop empathy about how you approach the problem and use this feedback loop to keep improving. They left out the crit portion of design thinking, which was you throw that stuff up there but then you let everyone point out the holes. As a result, now everyone thinks design thinking is passe and we’re back to being decorators.
KM: My coworker Chris will hold up his hands and say “just a pair of hands!” because someone once told him that, that all he was was a pair of hands.
CP: If UCDA is interested in elevating the role of designer, the question is how do you do that? In my 25 years of working in higher ed, which I love, I grew up with it, it is a way to do something meaningful. But the system can be really frustrating.
KM: One thing UCDA has done for me is introduce me to people that have done this job longer, have advanced in their career, have a different title than I do. I was totally happy being a designer, but I’ve been in that role—at the same place!—almost 21 years now. I have more and more responsibilities. I’m doing things that aren’t in my job description, and I should have a job title that reflects that. Meeting all these people and having these conversations has helped me form an understanding of what I do, what I need to ask for, so I can stay in the same place but have some career growth, and maybe gain a little more clout and respect for what I do. It’s given me something to aspire to. I feel like UCDA has given me the confidence to ask for that. I try to participate in UCDA. I’ve had a couple of people tell me I should run for the board and that makes me feel cool.
CP: You SHOULD run for the board! This is my second go round on the board. Here’s my story: I got a degree in art from Clemson. It’s not like people were banging down the door to give me a job. I ended up working in print shops and would get stray design requests that would come in, enough to build up a portfolio to get a job at Clemson. And I had mad respect for Pam Fogg. I thought Pam would never think I was cool enough to talk to her. She and my director, Dave Dryden, were on the board together. He came back from a board meeting and said, “Would you like to plan the Austin conference, in 2006?” I was like “HUH?? Why do you think I can do that?” Pam apparently had turned to Dave and said “You know who might be good at this is Christine.” Now, Pam and I are really good friends, but I still don’t know why Pam thought I could do it. But I did and it was a really successful conference. It gave me some opportunity to spread my wings that I never imagined. I never thought I’d be on the board, I never thought I’d plan conferences, I never thought I could do any of this. Did you go to the Grand Rapids conference?
KM: No I missed that one.
CP: That was the year I got the UCDA award. And I’m still just astonished that here I am, not a real graphic design degree, worked my way into this position which I wasn’t qualified for. Now I’m standing in front of my peers and they’re all applauding everything I’ve done for this organization and I’m like “How did this happen, it’s amazing.” So yeah, run for the board. It’s a great experience and you end up doing things you didn’t realize you could do.
KM: I’ve thought about it a time or two before and then I’m like “no, no, I’m not good enough, I’m not experienced enough to run for the board” and then you read the bios and you realize we’re all the same.
CP: Oh, absolutely. And there are people that turn out to be good board members that on paper you might wonder how they would do. It’s really about the commitment they have to the position and what they’re willing to bring. It really has zero to do with design ability.
KM: It’s not about pedigree.
CP: It’s about passion and participation you bring to that position. I’ve been lucky that Clemson has always supported the time that I spend to make this organization better. And that’s what the key is. You just need ideas and energy and a commitment to helping make those ideas come to light.
KM: It was maybe the Phoenix conference where I thought “oh my God, Clemson has a lot of people here, they seem really supportive of their creatives and letting them learn” and it inspired me to go back to the office and say “We should all go to UCDA! Even the web people. There’s very little there for you, but it’s just so inspiring to be around people that are creative and communicators.”
CP: Well the truth is they SHOULD be at this conference and we should be offering them content that is relevant to them. Last year, we had that gamification session that Josh Salazar did and that’s a session you DO want your UX designers to see. We need those UX designers to help push the the organization in directions where it needs to go.
KM: I’ve just met really cool people and amazing designers through UCDA.
CP: Even within an office as big as mine, it can feel lonely. That’s one of the things I love about the UCDA Slack. Sometimes it’s useful things, like the “what kind of photo management system we should use” and sometimes it’s “I’m really struggling.”
KM: Slack has been nice. It helps to get to know people, especially when you’re an introvert, because it’s a lot easier to strike up a conversation on a keyboard instead of going up to somebody.
CP: I think particularly when you put a proof out and everyone has opinions, which they’re paid to have opinions. It can be tough to be a grownup to say, “I appreciate that feedback” and not get demoralized. UCDA at least gives us each other to remind ourselves that we’re interesting, talented people. That happened for me at the Portland conference, which was just so emotional, so supportive.
KM: That was 2019. That’s where you and I really bonded. Lindsey Charlet’s talk was like a therapy session.
Left: Christine Prado during the UCDA Design Conference in Phoenix (2011). Right: James Harman and Katharine McCann at the UCDA Design Conference in Orlando (2015).
CP: I think a lot of designers were just feeling beat up. It felt like we were all healing each other.
KM: I think about her “angry chair” every so often. “Stop carrying that chair, it’s ruining your Kate Spade bag!” I’ve never gone up to a conference presenter and cried.
CP: It’s funny you say that because I did that with Aldrena Corder. She had talked about hair. Obviously, she was talking about a different hair experience, of having black, kinky hair where society preferred straighter hair. I had stopped dyeing my hair. She’s up there talking about embracing the hair that you’ve got and I remember sitting there, tears streaming down my face, not realizing what a complicated decision that had been for me. And she’s one that I walked up to and cried.
KM: Portland was good for getting it all out.
CP: And who knew that in six months, we would have needed all that, recognizing how vulnerable we all were. We were really all going to be dealing with something totally different.
KM: I don’t know if it was just the Portland conference, but I’ve been more comfortable talking about my mental health. A couple situations at work, emailing my boss and saying, “I can’t work with these people if this is how it’s going to be.” I think growing with UCDA, meeting people, meeting other women who use their voices, has empowered me about addressing that stuff.
CP: I know it’s not easy for people that would rather just produce the work to do that. But I think the opportunity to be vulnerable together, it’s a good reminder that we’re all in the same boat … it’s like Glennon Doyle says ‘we can do hard things.’”
CP: OK this has been great fun.
KM: It’s been fun.